Loved this piece so much. I write a top food newsletter, my posts are almost always on the leaderboard just due to sheer volume of readers, and I still get the substack envy! I really don't feel it on Instagram like I do here -- probably because it is so much more closely tied to financial gain.
"A rising tide lifts all ships" has become my motto over the past few years, though. The more I lift up and support other writers, the more it comes back around. Sometimes I'll see yet another massive food tiktoker join substack and my first response is "shit, they're coming for my spot!". Then I take a deep breath, welcome them to the party, and tell them to call me if they need any help settling in. This approach feels much, much better than the spiteful ignoring of their posts, which I also used to do. Now, hearts for all ❤️❤️❤️❤️
I think the relationship between the money and the jealousy/envy can’t be overstated! Allowing writers/creators the ability to directly monetize their audience is a double-edged sword.
You’ve been a tremendous supporter of PL and, not to get too cheesy on main, but it’s really inspired me and Aliza to follow suit with Substackers smaller than us.
You’re the best!!! 💛💛 I really like to believe that this approach (rising tide lifts all ships) and your overall genuineness is the most effective — and it feels so much better than being an asshole or holding onto spite too, ha 😅
BTW - giving your cookbook to ANOTHER friend tonight for her birthday! When I have friends that aren’t butter pants yet, I’m like WHAAAAT!? Where you been??!
You’re amazing! How refreshing to hear this POV even from someone at the top of their game. I try to embrace an infinite mindset, there’s so many people and so much opportunity in the world. More than enough room for all of us to grow. I use envy to guide me where to go. It’s my inner compass telling me, you want that! Go get it! Thank you for leading the way!
Infinite mindset is IT. Scarcity mindset gets no one anywhere!!!! When you lift up the people around you (or way "above or "below" you) everyone rises.
I don’t know why we revert to the opposite! sometimes my brain has a hard time conceiving of *scale* and just how big the world is - it takes conscientious practice! Thanks for taking on this topic 🤍
Love this and have been thinking a lot about it lately. To me, I think it all comes back to what Emily said here. It's the numbers of it all that makes it hard, at least for me. Though I don't know if I experience *jealousy* because of them as much as plain old self-doubt. In any case, the stats make comparison extremely easy and also one dimensional. Sure, I value the hard work and time and unique creative effort I have put into creating content here... but if it still boils down to fewer subscriptions that someone else, well... obviously I need to work harder, right?
It's funny because I was reading this post and nodding along and then when I got to the part where you interviewed other Substackers my brain was like, "Wait. Why didn't they interview you, Olivia? Obviously you're doing something wrong." Of course, my rational brain understands that this is an absurd question to ask, but I think it's reflective of the comparison machine that Substack is spawning lately. We're all doing slightly different things but comparing ourselves with the same metrics, often in many of the same overlapping circles. Substack is work but it's also social, and so many of the relationships we have with other Substackers are the same. It feels like being jealous of a friend (shameful!!) but also a co-worker you're competing with (natural??), even if that's not quite accurate.
Anyway, I'm rambling. But I love this and I think it's a super interesting conversation. Thank you for the post!!
One of the really lovely and heartening things about being vulnerable is when people are vulnerable back, which is to say: I really appreciate this note; it makes me feel very seen.
(And you know what’s wild? I’m such a fan of you and your writing (you were one of the people who came to mind when thinking about “people who seem to write gorgeous essays without effort”) and have been planning to reach out to you for a separate essay!!)
Yes, yes it does. And jealousy is the undercurrent of a lot of the more negative-leaning pieces I read on Substack, whether the writer is aware of how they sound or not. And sadly, it's mostly a girl-on-girl crime. Being snarky is something the Internet rewards. Airing your grievances on Substack has been a trending ripple I've witnessed since coming on this platform 3.5 years ago. Bravo to you two for being so self-aware. The growth it takes to look inward and identify that feeling as jealousy is no small feat. For the record, I've always looked at you both as leaders in the space with a genuinely original point of view. Your work always has a lot of heart.
It's almost always girl-on-girl crime! (Although I really had a pang of jealousy this week when so dude on LinkedIn was promoting his podcast about kids and money.)
Funny enough, I think this post will most def get you in to the leaderboard because it's extremely relatable don't matter the amount of subs we each have. I don't think it's about Substack as a platform, but rather how Substack displays the publication numbers makes you more aware of it. Great read :)
I think it's important to note that this isn't just a Substack thing -- jealousy and envy exist for all kinds of people/jobs/creators. It's a very normal part of life, and especially a life with an online presence.
Yes, absolutely — that was a snippet from our interview that didn’t make it in. I do think the direct relationship between money and audience raises the stakes more than on other platforms, to Caroline’s point above…
Yeah I feel it SO much more acutely on Substack than on Instagram, and this post really helped me think about why, and I do think it's that direct tie to financial gain.
I found this post because it was trending which shows that the hand that feeds us is the hardest one to bite. I frequently experience Substack jealousy and I'm so relieved to know I'm not alone. So much of my jealousy personally, and I'm not going to project to anyone else, is that I also feel a little insecure. I'm not a trained writer so I worry that someday I'll run out of things to write and my fraudulent nature will be exposed (dramatic, I know) and this is exasperated when I see other writers who are really smart.
My method for combating the feelings are to double-down on engaging in their work in the comments and LEARNING from them. It's one thing to be a writer on SS but I have to remind myself to be a READER on SS too.
Kelly!! Wow. Not only does that let you turn the jealousy into something more useful, it also means you're participating in that writer's community and helping them — and deepening your relationship with them, too. So so great.
And yes, definitely VERY ironic that this piece is trending. I'm trying to keep some distance from it so I don't get sucked into the same cycle.
Oh I love this piece with my whole body. Thank you for taking the time to write it!!
I have paid subs in the hundreds but have literally never not once made it onto the leaderboard (I’ve been writing on Substack for almost 2 years). I haven’t had a piece go viral in four years (before I started Substack, when I was writing on a much larger platform). The only thing that really gets me anymore is when a totally new writer goes viral on like their fifth essay. That stabs me a little.
Honestly I think I just changed my expectations for my own “success” on Substack. Maybe someday I’ll get where I want to go, but freeing myself from even hoping that something I write will go viral or that I’ll double my subscriber count due to one feature by a large publication has helped a lot. I write because I like it. I write in a category where if I even make one person feel seen, I’m having a good day.
I think the reason my expectations changed was *definitely* because I started writing a novel. And honestly I think I’m better at fiction writing than essay writing. And for some reason that has helped me care less about the performance of my Substack writing? Like I still love being here and really enjoy it but I think focusing on my book took the pressure off. I’m not as jealous or envious as I used to be of other writers who are finding a lot more success here than I am.
Part of it has also been that Substack has become more of a social media platform lately which is something I know I don’t excel at, so when other people are doing “better” than I am, I’m like yep that sounds right lol
This makes so so much sense, Kelly. It actually kinda reminds me of the reason I started doing a *Substack* — I felt like too much of my identity was wrapped up in work and my relationship and I needed to diversify where I spent my time and energy and drew fulfillment from! I think maybe the takeaway is, don't put too much stock in any one area to define you...
Me too! I actually enjoyed writing on Substack a bit more when I didn't know there was a leaderboard, Notes didn't exist yet, etc etc! Like it's totally fine that's the way things have gone, platforms have to and do evolve, but it's hard not to get lost in the comparison machine sometimes when the platform sets you up to care...
Something I like to think is, competitive with other writers is good for Substack but competitive with myself is good for my work. Great piece as always!
It’s so true that it’s the social media aspect that makes it so much worse! It gives the sense that there’s a metric to our worth and also disconnects us from who is there appreciating us. The only thing I’ve found that helps is the work I do-inner child healing. I know when I’m jealous it’s a part of me that wants whatever I’m jealous of (so that’s helpful information) but feels less than bc she hasn’t achieved it. So I have to decouple for her specifically the lie that social media tells us, that her worth could be quantified. Apparently I had a lot to say about this! Thanks for normalizing it!
This was so well written, thank you for opening the dialogue. My approach since joining this community has always been to just focus on what I want to write about and discuss and those who are interested will come along for the ride and those who are not, no biggie! Easier said than done of course but a great reminder we are all human ☺️
Oh this may be one of my most favorite topics of all time! I could write far past the character count allowed in a comment section but this area is the best place to focus on setting your own standards if you are in it for long term fulfillment. Here are a few of my favorite tips: 1. Diversify who you spend time with/ admire. This actually solves a magnitude of problems. When I am not consumed with my peers it makes me appreciate them so much more. Plus I’ve found the biggest shifts and inspiration come from those far beyond me on their paths (hindsight really is 20/20 and plus they have more free time to give advice) and those just getting started and in that beautiful delusional stage before they have not gotten battered by the realities of being fully in whatever endeavor they are working towards. They have untainted eyes and ideas before exhaustion and comparison kick in. 2. A wise mentor once told me, if you wish for a part of someone’s life you have to be willing to wish for it all. We don’t know the behind the scenes of anyone’s lives. Most of the writers that I would only day dream of being able to move people with their words like they do have lived through some capital T trauma. It cracks them open in a way that studying metrics and tweaking for audiences just can’t compare too and I’m very grateful to have a path that is choosing growth rather than it being trust upon me in painful ways. Plus I’m a big energy ROI gal and time spent thinking about lack keeps me away from the beauty sitting right in front :)
These are SUCH good tips, Victoria 💛 I especially love what you said about spreading out your time and attention across people at all different stages. This tracks with something Viv said I really liked: "Sometimes I just don't read any fashion Substacks as a kind of media cleanse/meditative state, because as a fashion writer myself, I get very distracted and overwhelmed when I'm intaking too many external voices."
Once you get on the other side of it, then you get to feel so pumped for other people and get to share their wins as your own and it’s such a joy expander :) I’m in a book club with some older people and one man is a retired physicist who is writing about the physics of why the law of attraction works. he has no platform, not trying to gain anything from it. He just loves it. Now that’s the people I find so fascinating and inspirational!
Loved this piece so much. I write a top food newsletter, my posts are almost always on the leaderboard just due to sheer volume of readers, and I still get the substack envy! I really don't feel it on Instagram like I do here -- probably because it is so much more closely tied to financial gain.
"A rising tide lifts all ships" has become my motto over the past few years, though. The more I lift up and support other writers, the more it comes back around. Sometimes I'll see yet another massive food tiktoker join substack and my first response is "shit, they're coming for my spot!". Then I take a deep breath, welcome them to the party, and tell them to call me if they need any help settling in. This approach feels much, much better than the spiteful ignoring of their posts, which I also used to do. Now, hearts for all ❤️❤️❤️❤️
I think the relationship between the money and the jealousy/envy can’t be overstated! Allowing writers/creators the ability to directly monetize their audience is a double-edged sword.
You’ve been a tremendous supporter of PL and, not to get too cheesy on main, but it’s really inspired me and Aliza to follow suit with Substackers smaller than us.
Have literally been panicking all day that I called myself a "top food newsletter" ew omg felt helpful might delete lol
Hahaha but you ARE!!
You’re the best!!! 💛💛 I really like to believe that this approach (rising tide lifts all ships) and your overall genuineness is the most effective — and it feels so much better than being an asshole or holding onto spite too, ha 😅
BTW - giving your cookbook to ANOTHER friend tonight for her birthday! When I have friends that aren’t butter pants yet, I’m like WHAAAAT!? Where you been??!
I LOVE YOU, thank you for being the ultimate supporter of me and my book!!!
You’re amazing! How refreshing to hear this POV even from someone at the top of their game. I try to embrace an infinite mindset, there’s so many people and so much opportunity in the world. More than enough room for all of us to grow. I use envy to guide me where to go. It’s my inner compass telling me, you want that! Go get it! Thank you for leading the way!
Infinite mindset is IT. Scarcity mindset gets no one anywhere!!!! When you lift up the people around you (or way "above or "below" you) everyone rises.
I don’t know why we revert to the opposite! sometimes my brain has a hard time conceiving of *scale* and just how big the world is - it takes conscientious practice! Thanks for taking on this topic 🤍
also wow i love this -- "you want that, go get it!" that's so so so good and such a helpful reframe of envy
wow this came together so nicely. such an important conversation to be having :)
💛💛💛
Love this and have been thinking a lot about it lately. To me, I think it all comes back to what Emily said here. It's the numbers of it all that makes it hard, at least for me. Though I don't know if I experience *jealousy* because of them as much as plain old self-doubt. In any case, the stats make comparison extremely easy and also one dimensional. Sure, I value the hard work and time and unique creative effort I have put into creating content here... but if it still boils down to fewer subscriptions that someone else, well... obviously I need to work harder, right?
It's funny because I was reading this post and nodding along and then when I got to the part where you interviewed other Substackers my brain was like, "Wait. Why didn't they interview you, Olivia? Obviously you're doing something wrong." Of course, my rational brain understands that this is an absurd question to ask, but I think it's reflective of the comparison machine that Substack is spawning lately. We're all doing slightly different things but comparing ourselves with the same metrics, often in many of the same overlapping circles. Substack is work but it's also social, and so many of the relationships we have with other Substackers are the same. It feels like being jealous of a friend (shameful!!) but also a co-worker you're competing with (natural??), even if that's not quite accurate.
Anyway, I'm rambling. But I love this and I think it's a super interesting conversation. Thank you for the post!!
One of the really lovely and heartening things about being vulnerable is when people are vulnerable back, which is to say: I really appreciate this note; it makes me feel very seen.
(And you know what’s wild? I’m such a fan of you and your writing (you were one of the people who came to mind when thinking about “people who seem to write gorgeous essays without effort”) and have been planning to reach out to you for a separate essay!!)
DITTO ALL OF THIS! Thanks so much for sharing your takes here, Olivia 💛
social platforms are built with numbers attached for a reason!!!!
olivia, i had a VERY similar thought--so you are not alone in the comparison insanity (my words, not yours!). love the convo here as always, A&A ❤️
💛💛
Yes, yes it does. And jealousy is the undercurrent of a lot of the more negative-leaning pieces I read on Substack, whether the writer is aware of how they sound or not. And sadly, it's mostly a girl-on-girl crime. Being snarky is something the Internet rewards. Airing your grievances on Substack has been a trending ripple I've witnessed since coming on this platform 3.5 years ago. Bravo to you two for being so self-aware. The growth it takes to look inward and identify that feeling as jealousy is no small feat. For the record, I've always looked at you both as leaders in the space with a genuinely original point of view. Your work always has a lot of heart.
This is such a thoughtful comment, thank you Jess! 💜
Aw, Jess, Aliza and I admire you so much — we talked about your note on a walk yesterday because it really meant a lot to us. Thank you.
It's almost always girl-on-girl crime! (Although I really had a pang of jealousy this week when so dude on LinkedIn was promoting his podcast about kids and money.)
Ha! I would subscribe to a Purse podcast so fast, just saying...
Funny enough, I think this post will most def get you in to the leaderboard because it's extremely relatable don't matter the amount of subs we each have. I don't think it's about Substack as a platform, but rather how Substack displays the publication numbers makes you more aware of it. Great read :)
Yeah, it’s an interesting question — would we still feel competitive if those numbers were less integrated into the core experience?
Not completely, but would help. Gamification is a big piece of why we feel like we feel.
And thank you Sara! 💛
Thank you for this! Feels like fun therapy and loosens the tight cap just a little to let out pressure. We all feel it.
So so glad!
Thank you, Sarah! "Fun therapy" is going to be my new PL catch-phrase lol.
I think it's important to note that this isn't just a Substack thing -- jealousy and envy exist for all kinds of people/jobs/creators. It's a very normal part of life, and especially a life with an online presence.
Yes, absolutely — that was a snippet from our interview that didn’t make it in. I do think the direct relationship between money and audience raises the stakes more than on other platforms, to Caroline’s point above…
Yeah I feel it SO much more acutely on Substack than on Instagram, and this post really helped me think about why, and I do think it's that direct tie to financial gain.
Completely agree. I actually felt like the hyper-focus on Substack in these conversations made it easier to apply in a more macro way!
BTW - Love all the perspective you added. Thank you again for sharing, Emily!
This came together so well. I really love the delineation between envy and jealousy. I had never really thought about it this way!
Thank you, Grace! And all credit to Ochuko… I hadn’t realized they weren’t totally synonymous until she pointed it out.
I found this post because it was trending which shows that the hand that feeds us is the hardest one to bite. I frequently experience Substack jealousy and I'm so relieved to know I'm not alone. So much of my jealousy personally, and I'm not going to project to anyone else, is that I also feel a little insecure. I'm not a trained writer so I worry that someday I'll run out of things to write and my fraudulent nature will be exposed (dramatic, I know) and this is exasperated when I see other writers who are really smart.
My method for combating the feelings are to double-down on engaging in their work in the comments and LEARNING from them. It's one thing to be a writer on SS but I have to remind myself to be a READER on SS too.
Kelly!! Wow. Not only does that let you turn the jealousy into something more useful, it also means you're participating in that writer's community and helping them — and deepening your relationship with them, too. So so great.
And yes, definitely VERY ironic that this piece is trending. I'm trying to keep some distance from it so I don't get sucked into the same cycle.
Honestly I’m so impressed at your awareness and for providing this forum for this discussion.
Writer AND reader… love this. 🙌🏻🧡
Reading this article and seeing my own name and being like 😅. Yup!! Haha
Ahaha I apologize but this is also so deeply validating
We've come a long way since iHOP, eh Taylor???? :)
Omg literally!’
I accidentally found the old photo the other day...we all grew up! Wild times.
Oh I love this piece with my whole body. Thank you for taking the time to write it!!
I have paid subs in the hundreds but have literally never not once made it onto the leaderboard (I’ve been writing on Substack for almost 2 years). I haven’t had a piece go viral in four years (before I started Substack, when I was writing on a much larger platform). The only thing that really gets me anymore is when a totally new writer goes viral on like their fifth essay. That stabs me a little.
Honestly I think I just changed my expectations for my own “success” on Substack. Maybe someday I’ll get where I want to go, but freeing myself from even hoping that something I write will go viral or that I’ll double my subscriber count due to one feature by a large publication has helped a lot. I write because I like it. I write in a category where if I even make one person feel seen, I’m having a good day.
I think the reason my expectations changed was *definitely* because I started writing a novel. And honestly I think I’m better at fiction writing than essay writing. And for some reason that has helped me care less about the performance of my Substack writing? Like I still love being here and really enjoy it but I think focusing on my book took the pressure off. I’m not as jealous or envious as I used to be of other writers who are finding a lot more success here than I am.
Part of it has also been that Substack has become more of a social media platform lately which is something I know I don’t excel at, so when other people are doing “better” than I am, I’m like yep that sounds right lol
This makes so so much sense, Kelly. It actually kinda reminds me of the reason I started doing a *Substack* — I felt like too much of my identity was wrapped up in work and my relationship and I needed to diversify where I spent my time and energy and drew fulfillment from! I think maybe the takeaway is, don't put too much stock in any one area to define you...
Also, excited to see you back here on Monday 😉
I really like that takeaway Aja! And thank you again for having me! ❤️
I also have never made the leaderboard! I loved when I didn't have to worry about this!!
Me too! I actually enjoyed writing on Substack a bit more when I didn't know there was a leaderboard, Notes didn't exist yet, etc etc! Like it's totally fine that's the way things have gone, platforms have to and do evolve, but it's hard not to get lost in the comparison machine sometimes when the platform sets you up to care...
I didn’t even know that was a leaderboard! 🙈 A just thought it was random articles substack put in my feed 🫠😆
Honestly that's a *brilliant* way to think of it.
Hah! Love it — don’t let us spoil that 💜
🙈
Something I like to think is, competitive with other writers is good for Substack but competitive with myself is good for my work. Great piece as always!
Trust you to have a super memorable and effective one-liner for this!
It’s so true that it’s the social media aspect that makes it so much worse! It gives the sense that there’s a metric to our worth and also disconnects us from who is there appreciating us. The only thing I’ve found that helps is the work I do-inner child healing. I know when I’m jealous it’s a part of me that wants whatever I’m jealous of (so that’s helpful information) but feels less than bc she hasn’t achieved it. So I have to decouple for her specifically the lie that social media tells us, that her worth could be quantified. Apparently I had a lot to say about this! Thanks for normalizing it!
That’s sooo real. Thank you for sharing!
Love this, Aja! So many great voices in here! Thanks for including me!
This was so well written, thank you for opening the dialogue. My approach since joining this community has always been to just focus on what I want to write about and discuss and those who are interested will come along for the ride and those who are not, no biggie! Easier said than done of course but a great reminder we are all human ☺️
A big YES to that. Turning inward and really dialing down the noise was such a consistent theme across the interviews.
Oh this may be one of my most favorite topics of all time! I could write far past the character count allowed in a comment section but this area is the best place to focus on setting your own standards if you are in it for long term fulfillment. Here are a few of my favorite tips: 1. Diversify who you spend time with/ admire. This actually solves a magnitude of problems. When I am not consumed with my peers it makes me appreciate them so much more. Plus I’ve found the biggest shifts and inspiration come from those far beyond me on their paths (hindsight really is 20/20 and plus they have more free time to give advice) and those just getting started and in that beautiful delusional stage before they have not gotten battered by the realities of being fully in whatever endeavor they are working towards. They have untainted eyes and ideas before exhaustion and comparison kick in. 2. A wise mentor once told me, if you wish for a part of someone’s life you have to be willing to wish for it all. We don’t know the behind the scenes of anyone’s lives. Most of the writers that I would only day dream of being able to move people with their words like they do have lived through some capital T trauma. It cracks them open in a way that studying metrics and tweaking for audiences just can’t compare too and I’m very grateful to have a path that is choosing growth rather than it being trust upon me in painful ways. Plus I’m a big energy ROI gal and time spent thinking about lack keeps me away from the beauty sitting right in front :)
These are SUCH good tips, Victoria 💛 I especially love what you said about spreading out your time and attention across people at all different stages. This tracks with something Viv said I really liked: "Sometimes I just don't read any fashion Substacks as a kind of media cleanse/meditative state, because as a fashion writer myself, I get very distracted and overwhelmed when I'm intaking too many external voices."
Once you get on the other side of it, then you get to feel so pumped for other people and get to share their wins as your own and it’s such a joy expander :) I’m in a book club with some older people and one man is a retired physicist who is writing about the physics of why the law of attraction works. he has no platform, not trying to gain anything from it. He just loves it. Now that’s the people I find so fascinating and inspirational!
Wow, that's incredible — so so pure!